Talk:Main Page

From Without Systemd
Jump to: navigation, search


What about Damn Small Linux?

I didn't see it in the list and can't find any reference to systemd in their package database. Maybe i'm wrong?

edit: Unfortunately DSL is not being developed anymore :(

Free Software Foundation

What about the idea to drop the contrib & non-free trees of the original Debian GNU/Linux Distro, provide our Distro with a deblobbed kernel ( for instance linux-libre ) and when we have a prototype to ask the [| Free Software Foundation] for support?

Then we could provide a fully free as in freedom GNU/Linux distribution and we could hope to receive FSF-Support.

Free speech 22:12, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

Unfortunately i need some blobs for my Hardware, that's the issue with most modern Hardware. Obri 05:37, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

GNU/Linux Distros in which systemd can be replaced

I removed Exherbo

  • Exherbo Linux
    • systemd is the default init system, but you can disable systemd usage globally and use alternatives easily. See Without systemd.

from the list since the headline clearly says "without systemd in the default installation". The fact that systemd can be disabled/replaced is also true for most other GNU/Linux distros with systemd as default init (expect the ones from Red Hat, eg Fedora, RHEL, CentOS).

If that changes and many more distros will be so dependent from systemd that it will be nearly impossible to replace it, then we can still make a list of GNU/Linux Distros in which systemd can be replaced.

Another example worth listing here since it is based on Gentoo:

  • Sabayon Linux (Gentoo based)
    • The default init system is systemd. Switch to runit(?) + OpenRC via "eselect init".
  • Debian GNU/Linux
    • systemd is the default init system. "sysvinit-core" package also provides /sbin/init.
    • Although there has been a lack of interest from the Debian camp in supporting and maintaining systemd-less installations, it looks like that may start to change.
    • Additionally, software repositories such as those from Devuan can be added to improve System V init compatibility.

Nonfree OS?

Should we really list complete nonfree operating systems like HP-UX? Then we can really list Mac OS X and even Windows there, which comes without systemd as well. ;)

Seriously: I think a minimal policy should be established to recommend only free software here (or open source, if you prefer that term). We must not go as far as the FSF, but I think there should be a minimal consensus to recommend only systems or software which declares themselves as free/libre/open source. That would be nearly all GNU/Linux and *BSD systems plus some exotic systems like ReactOS or illumos. The rejection of systemd must not go so far to recommend complete nonfree systems just to escape systemd. What do you think?

I agree. I only added a bunch of non-free OSs (mostly Unix) as someone else had started it but you're right, it's better that we don't include them. -- wicket

Debian derivatives (now systemd infected)

Debian derivatives (w/o Ubuntu) that made the switch to systemd (as pid 1), following Debian 8 (Jessie) or Sid.

HandyLinux (2.0)
Kali Linux (2.0)
Knoppix (7.4.0)
LinuxBBQ ( Oct. 2012 )
Metamorphose Linux (7.1.8)
Mint Debian Edition (LMDE 2)
Parsix (6.0r0)
Proxmox (4.1)
Q4OS (1.2.1)
Raspbian (2015-09-24)
RebeccaBlackOS (2015.10.21)
Rescatux (targeted for 0.40)
RoboLinux (8.1)
SolydXK (201411)
SparkyLinux (3.5)
Tails (2.0)
Untangle NG Firewall (12.0)
Webconverger (23.0)

systemd wrapper

bandied around a bit in [email protected] general idea is package(s) that replace systemd tha contain programs that intercept systemd calls and handle them in ways more consistent with the unix philosophy this limits the scope of the problem to something practical and more achievable short-term forking an entire distribution and removing systemd dependencies from debian repos would be a huge undertaking that may take years aand requires substantial ongoing effort that in a sense duplicates the efforts of existing debian package maintainers also, users aren't likely to change merely for superficial or ideological reasons, and if removing systemd dependencies necessarily breaks or limits the development of packages that users want, a systemd-less debian fork won't attract a very large user base Crutchy 07:36, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

Other systems without systemd

I added Dyson, as I found no systemd in their repos. However, how do we gauge the likeliyhood that any of the OSes listed here remains clean? Do any of them have an explicit commitment? In that case, it would be great to point directly to it, rather than the generic page. Ale2015 09:38, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

The likelihood of non-Linux OSs like Dyson remaining systemd-free is very high as systemd is not portable. One of those currently listed that concerns me is gNewSense, which being based on Debian, will probably adopt systemd with its next release. -- wicket

Added TLD Linux

I've added my little distribution - TLD Linux. It uses SysVinit for ages and that will not change. Systemd is available as a choice, but I plan to remove it in next release. hawk 9 January 2015, 9:12 CET

RHEL-based fixes?

Any chance someone knows of a decent RHEL-based OS that's up to date but hasn't switched to using systemd?

Or maybe some expert is kind enough to write instructional steps for replacing systemd with sysv in RHEL7? If it's even possible that is.

Thanks, --I.loathe.systemd (talk) 13:18, 11 February 2015 (CET)

step 1) wipe hard drive
step 2) install a distro that doesnt have systemd

You're welcome! -- Gravis (talk)

So in other words there are no RHEL derivatives that continue to use SysV... Damn. I guess I'm left with only two options, stay with RHEL6 until it's so old no new software works on it or switch to a BS Server OS like Windows Server. facepalm --I.loathe.systemd (talk) 07:47, 22 March 2015 (CET)

Calculate linux

I could not add it due to it being blocked by spam filter.

Non general purpose OSs?

Should we be listing non general purpose OSs like FreeNAS? We could go on forever listing them all and it detracts from the point we are trying to make. -- wicket


From the edit history:

true Gentoo default is OpenRC and offering a user-unfriendly way to protect one's self from sysd Portage input, but it will disappear.

Please cite your source on this. I've been a Gentoo user for years now, and if Gentoo was intending to switch to systemd only, or even putting it in the stage3, I think I would have heard about it by now. (As an aside, USE="-systemd" comes quite naturally to Gentoo users, and the distro was never designed around "user friendliness" anyway, so I'm not sure the point about it being user-unfriendly is valid, especially when it comes to init systems, a component which most users don't care about)

Lavacano201014 (talk) 20:38, 23 May 2015 (CEST)

Pardus Community Edition

I tried the latest Pardus Community Edition 3.0 KDE (based on Debian Jessie) and I found that its pid 1 is owned by /sbin/init which is a symlink to /lib/systemd/systemd ! I obviously removed Pardus from the list since on the systemd front, Pardus seems to be lost. -- CrayXMP

Disorganized Text

The following text was found at the top of the page, with no heading and detached from its context. Will the original authors please move the text to where it actually belongs? Thank you. Lavacano201014 (talk) 00:52, 2 June 2015 (CEST)

why??? Folken: Because all the arguments have been brought forward. Dismissed and ignored. Democracy is a compromise, not a minority vs majority. Democractic process means to take the arguments of the minority into account and working them into the final solution. This has not happend. This is why.

Concerning Void Linux (and others?).

I followed the link on the main page to Void Linux, downloaded and ran the LiveUsb + Cinnamon. I now wonder why it is listed here.

It is listed here since Void's default init system is runit. Check it via "ps -fp 1". It may use some of systemd's components for some reasons. But it does so without running systemd as PID 1. It boots really fast btw.

Personal tools