Arguments against systemd

From Without Systemd
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* [http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2015-February/028514.html Lead systemd developer doesn't understand RAID or checksum]
 
* [http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2015-February/028514.html Lead systemd developer doesn't understand RAID or checksum]
 
* [https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/825#issuecomment-127917622 Lead systemd developer doesn't understand ''su'', expects it to do something else and then labels it a "broken concept"] - ''su'' isn't supposed to inherit cgroups or audit, those concepts are relatively new and arrived well after the creation of ''su''. TTYs were originally physical devices so of course ''su'' is supposed "inherit" the same device otherwise it would be truly broken. Pseudo TTYs emulate real TTYs so their behaviour is obviously expected to be identical. ''su'' really is just a simple mechanism that calls setuid(2) in order to switch to another user. If he needs to write a new utility to handle scenarios that ''su'' was never designed to handle, no problem, but to label it as a "broken concept" demonstrates a lack of understanding of what ''su'' actually is.
 
* [https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/825#issuecomment-127917622 Lead systemd developer doesn't understand ''su'', expects it to do something else and then labels it a "broken concept"] - ''su'' isn't supposed to inherit cgroups or audit, those concepts are relatively new and arrived well after the creation of ''su''. TTYs were originally physical devices so of course ''su'' is supposed "inherit" the same device otherwise it would be truly broken. Pseudo TTYs emulate real TTYs so their behaviour is obviously expected to be identical. ''su'' really is just a simple mechanism that calls setuid(2) in order to switch to another user. If he needs to write a new utility to handle scenarios that ''su'' was never designed to handle, no problem, but to label it as a "broken concept" demonstrates a lack of understanding of what ''su'' actually is.
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== Blog posts ==
 
 
* 22 Nov 2011 [http://blog.gerhards.net/2011/11/journald-and-rsyslog.html Rainer's Blog - journald and rsyslog]
 
* 25 Nov 2011 [http://blog.gerhards.net/2011/11/what-i-dont-like-about-journald.html Rainer's Blog - What I don't like about journald / Linux Journal]
 
* 29 Oct 2013 [http://gentooexperimental.org/~patrick/weblog/archives/2013-10.html#e2013-10-29T13_39_32.txt Patrick's playground - systemd propaganda: It's a crap!]
 
* 20 Nov 2013 [http://draketo.de/light/english/top-5-systemd-troubles Zwillingssterns Weltenwald - Top 5 systemd troubles - a strategic view for distros]
 
* 09 Feb 2014 [http://ewontfix.com/14/ EWONTFIX - Broken by design: systemd]
 
* 27 Feb 2014 [http://ewontfix.com/15/ EWONTFIX - systemd has 6 service startup notification types, and they're all wrong]
 
* 31 Mar 2014 [https://plus.google.com/+TheodoreTso/posts/4W6rrMMvhWU Theodore Ts'o's Google Plus post]
 
* 03 Apr 2014 [https://igurublog.wordpress.com/2014/04/03/tso-and-linus-and-the-impotent-rage-against-systemd/ IgnorantGuru's Blog - Ts'o and Linus And The Impotent Rage Against systemd]
 
* 23 Apr 2014 [http://landley.net/notes-2014.html#23-04-2014 Rob Landley's Blog Thing for 2014]
 
* 12 Aug 2014 [https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/8/12/459 Open letter to the Linux World]
 
* 18 Aug 2014 [https://www.infoworld.com/article/2608798/data-center/systemd--harbinger-of-the-linux-apocalypse.html Infoworld - systemd: Harbinger of the Linux apocalypse]
 
* 19 Sep 2014 [https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=762194 Debian Bug #762194 "Automatic switch to systemd on wheezy->jessie upgrades"]
 
* 23 Sep 2014 [http://blog.lusis.org/blog/2014/09/23/end-of-linux/ blog dot lusis - The End of Linux]
 
* 26 Sep 2014 [http://judecnelson.blogspot.com/2014/09/systemd-biggest-fallacies.html Jude's blog - systemd: The Biggest Fallacies]
 
* 04 Oct 2014 [https://fitzcarraldoblog.wordpress.com/2014/10/04/my-thoughts-on-systemd/ Fitzcarraldo's Blog - My thoughts on systemd]
 
* 16 Oct 2014 [https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2014/10/msg00001.html debian-vote - preserve freedom of choice of init systems]
 
* 22 Nov 2014 [http://louwrentius.com/systemd-forward-secure-sealing-of-system-logs-makes-little-sense.html Louwrentius - Systemd Forward Secure Sealing of System Logs Makes Little Sense]
 
* 28 Nov 2014 [http://news.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/posts/systemd-assumptions-bullying-consent.html systemd: Assumptions, Bullying, Consent]
 
* 12 Dec 2014 [http://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/linux/SystemdCrashAndMore Chris's Wiki - The bad side of systemd: two recent systemd failures]
 
* 14 Dec 2014 [http://www.gabordemooij.com/index.php?p=/escape_from_systemd Gabor de Mooij - Escape from systemd]
 
* 09 Feb 2015 [http://mrpogson.com/2015/02/09/systemd-or-poettering-name-your-poison/ Robert Pogson - systemd Or Poettering, Name Your Poison]
 
* 14 Jun 2015 [http://www.steven-mcdonald.id.au/articles/systemd.shtml Why I dislike systemd]
 
* 11 Oct 2015 [http://blog.darknedgy.net/technology/2015/10/11/0/ Dark'n'Edgy - Structural and semantic deficiencies in the systemd architecture for real-world service management, a technical treatise]
 
* 17 Oct 2015 [https://bsdmag.org/randy_w_3/ BSD MAG - Problems with systemd and Why I like BSD Init (by Randy Westlund)]
 
* 29 Apr 2017 [http://www.galexander.org/systemd_sucks.html Gregor Alexander - systemd sucks]
 
* 31 Jul 2017 [http://fromthecodefront.blogspot.in/2017/07/systemd-pitfalls.html fromthecodefront - systemd pitfalls]
 
* 23 Oct 2017 [http://fromthecodefront.blogspot.in/2017/10/systemd-no.html fromthecodefront - systemd: Please, No, Not Like This]
 
 
* [http://skarnet.org/software/s6/systemd.html Skarnet - A word about systemd]
 
   
 
== See also ==
 
== See also ==
   
  +
* [[List of blog posts]]
 
* [[Non-English and multimedia presentations (external links)]]
 
* [[Non-English and multimedia presentations (external links)]]
+
* [[boycottsystemd.org]] (internal copy as actual site went offline)
Other sites:
 
 
 
* [https://suckless.org/sucks/systemd suckless.org - systemd is the best example of Suck]
 
* [https://suckless.org/sucks/systemd suckless.org - systemd is the best example of Suck]
* [[boycottsystemd.org]] (internal copy as actual site went offline)
 
   
 
Forum posts:
 
Forum posts:

Revision as of 18:07, 16 April 2018

Contents

Please objectively explain issues and link a reliable source (commit, bug report or documentation).

Issues

  • fsck cannot be cancelled (used to be possible via C-c or c on the console). 7f110ff9b8, Fedora#719952
  • systemd defaults to Google's DNS nameservers. e16cb2e4ef, Debian#761658
  • systemd defaults to Google's NTP servers, which serve leap-smeared time. GitHub#437
  • systemd by default uses Predictable Network Interface Names, which are actually less predictable when you only have one interface per type.
  • systemd by default kills background processes after the user logs out. 97e5530cf2, Debian#825394
    "In my view it was actually quite strange of UNIX that it by default let arbitrary user code stay around unrestricted after logout." -Poettering[1]
  • As systemd depends on many files on a rootfs, in case of any problems with rootfs, it is not able to control processes and (cleanly) shutdown/reboot when Crtl-Alt-Del is pressed.[2]
  • systemd-resolved breaks the traditional glibc behavior and skips a DNS server in all following queries, if it does not respond once. GitHub#5755, [3]

Conceptional problems

Debunking the myth of unit files being significantly shorter than scripts used by all other init systems: A side-by-side look at run scripts and service units

Poor design

Scope creep

Systemd anigif.gif

See Wikipedia:File:Systemd components.svg.

Scope creep leads to vulnerabilities

Absurd bugs and responses

Breaking promises and immaturity

"After udev is merged into the systemd tree you can still build it for usage outside of systemd systems, and we will support these builds officially. In fact, we will be supporting this for a long time"

"...this will effectively also mean that we will not support non-systemd systems with udev anymore starting at that point. Gentoo folks, this is your wakeup call."

Linux (kernel) coup attempt: "kdbus support is no longer compile-time optional ... We encourage all downstream distributions to begin testing kdbus by adding it to the kernel images in the development distributions, and leaving kdbus support in systemd enabled." comment on this on LKML

"The kdbuswreck"

"kdbus now out-of-tree"

"kdbus dropped in favor of BUS1"

unmet stability promises:

To quote from the systemd stability promise:

"Starting with version 26 (the first version released with Fedora 15) we promise to keep a number of them stable and compatible for the future."

One of their promises is for the export format:

"Entry metadata that is not actually a field is serialized like it was a field, but beginning with two underscores. "

This is not true for version 44 of systemd for example.

Ignorance of fundamental operating system concepts

See also

Forum posts:

Other links:

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