Arguments against systemd

From Without Systemd
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== further reading: additional links ==
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== Blog posts ==
* [http://ewontfix.com/14/ EWONTFIX - Broken by design: systemd]
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* [http://ewontfix.com/15/ EWONTFIX - systemd has 6 service startup notification types, and they're all wrong]
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* 22 Nov 2011 [http://blog.gerhards.net/2011/11/journald-and-rsyslog.html Rainer's Blog - journald and rsyslog]
* [http://judecnelson.blogspot.com/2014/09/systemd-biggest-fallacies.html systemd: The Biggest Fallacies]
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* 25 Nov 2011 [http://blog.gerhards.net/2011/11/what-i-dont-like-about-journald.html Rainer's Blog - What I don't like about journald / Linux Journal]
* [https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=762194#280 Debian Bug #762194 "Automatic switch to systemd on wheezy->jessie upgrades"]
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* 29 Oct 2013 [http://gentooexperimental.org/~patrick/weblog/archives/2013-10.html#e2013-10-29T13_39_32.txt Patrick's playground - systemd propaganda: It's a crap!]
* [http://blog.lusis.org/blog/2014/09/23/end-of-linux/ "On the architecture of systemd, I have a legitimate concern with the scope..."] article, plus infographic
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* 20 Nov 2013 [http://draketo.de/light/english/top-5-systemd-troubles Zwillingssterns Weltenwald - Top 5 systemd troubles - a strategic view for distros]
* [https://fitzcarraldoblog.wordpress.com/2014/10/04/my-thoughts-on-systemd/ Erosion of Choice?] <!-- kriv __ LAST CHECKED feb2017 -->
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* 09 Feb 2014 [http://ewontfix.com/14/ EWONTFIX - Broken by design: systemd]
* [https://www.infoworld.com/article/2608798/data-center/systemd--harbinger-of-the-linux-apocalypse.html systemd: harbinger of the linux apocalypse] infoworld.com article
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* 27 Feb 2014 [http://ewontfix.com/15/ EWONTFIX - systemd has 6 service startup notification types, and they're all wrong]
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* 31 Mar 2014 [https://plus.google.com/+TheodoreTso/posts/4W6rrMMvhWU Theodore Ts'o's Google Plus post]
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* 03 Apr 2014 [https://igurublog.wordpress.com/2014/04/03/tso-and-linus-and-the-impotent-rage-against-systemd/ IgnorantGuru's Blog - Ts'o and Linus And The Impotent Rage Against systemd]
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* 23 Apr 2014 [http://landley.net/notes-2014.html#23-04-2014 Rob Landley's Blog Thing for 2014]
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* 12 Aug 2014 [https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/8/12/459 Open letter to the Linux World]
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* 18 Aug 2014 [https://www.infoworld.com/article/2608798/data-center/systemd--harbinger-of-the-linux-apocalypse.html Infoworld - systemd: Harbinger of the Linux apocalypse]
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* 19 Sep 2014 [https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=762194 Debian Bug #762194 "Automatic switch to systemd on wheezy->jessie upgrades"]
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* 23 Sep 2014 [http://blog.lusis.org/blog/2014/09/23/end-of-linux/ blog dot lusis - The End of Linux]
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* 26 Sep 2014 [http://judecnelson.blogspot.com/2014/09/systemd-biggest-fallacies.html Jude's blog - systemd: The Biggest Fallacies]
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* 04 Oct 2014 [https://fitzcarraldoblog.wordpress.com/2014/10/04/my-thoughts-on-systemd/ Fitzcarraldo's Blog - My thoughts on systemd]
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* 16 Oct 2014 [https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2014/10/msg00001.html debian-vote - preserve freedom of choice of init systems]
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* 22 Nov 2014 [http://louwrentius.com/systemd-forward-secure-sealing-of-system-logs-makes-little-sense.html Louwrentius - Systemd Forward Secure Sealing of System Logs Makes Little Sense]
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* 28 Nov 2014 [http://news.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/posts/systemd-assumptions-bullying-consent.html systemd: Assumptions, Bullying, Consent]
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* 12 Dec 2014 [http://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/linux/SystemdCrashAndMore Chris's Wiki - The bad side of systemd: two recent systemd failures]
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* 14 Dec 2014 [http://www.gabordemooij.com/index.php?p=/escape_from_systemd Gabor de Mooij - Escape from systemd]
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* 09 Feb 2015 [http://mrpogson.com/2015/02/09/systemd-or-poettering-name-your-poison/ Robert Pogson - systemd Or Poettering, Name Your Poison]
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* 14 Jun 2015 [http://www.steven-mcdonald.id.au/articles/systemd.shtml Why I dislike systemd]
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* 11 Oct 2015 [http://blog.darknedgy.net/technology/2015/10/11/0/ Dark'n'Edgy - Structural and semantic deficiencies in the systemd architecture for real-world service management, a technical treatise]
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* 17 Oct 2015 [https://bsdmag.org/randy_w_3/ BSD MAG - Problems with systemd and Why I like BSD Init (by Randy Westlund)]
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* 29 Apr 2017 [http://www.galexander.org/systemd_sucks.html Gregor Alexander - systemd sucks]
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* 31 Jul 2017 [http://fromthecodefront.blogspot.in/2017/07/systemd-pitfalls.html fromthecodefront - systemd pitfalls]
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* 23 Oct 2017 [http://fromthecodefront.blogspot.in/2017/10/systemd-no.html fromthecodefront - systemd: Please, No, Not Like This]
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== See also ==
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* [http://skarnet.org/software/s6/systemd.html Skarnet's (anti) systemd page]
 
* [http://skarnet.org/software/s6/systemd.html Skarnet's (anti) systemd page]
* [https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2014/10/msg00001.html preserve freedom of choice of init systems]
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* [https://suckless.org/sucks/systemd suckless.org on systemd]
* [http://fromthecodefront.blogspot.in/2017/10/systemd-no.html systemd: Please, No, Not Like This] <!-- (October 2017) -->
 
* [http://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/linux/SystemdCrashAndMore The bad side of systemd: two recent systemd failures]
 
* [http://landley.net/notes-2014.html#23-04-2014 "...There are several problems with systemd unrelated to code quality..."]
 
* [https://suckless.org/sucks/systemd systemd is the best example of Suck (explained by suckless.org)]
 
* [http://gentooexperimental.org/~patrick/weblog/archives/2013-10.html#e2013-10-29T13_39_32.txt Patrick's playground - systemd propaganda: It's a crap!]
 
 
* [https://forums.bunsenlabs.org/viewtopic.php?id=4346 Fast boot?] in-the-wild discussion (workarounding slow OOTB systemd boot) "Performance tuning the boot process"
 
* [https://forums.bunsenlabs.org/viewtopic.php?id=4346 Fast boot?] in-the-wild discussion (workarounding slow OOTB systemd boot) "Performance tuning the boot process"
* [http://news.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/posts/systemd-assumptions-bullying-consent.html systemd: Assumptions, Bullying, Consent]
 
* [https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/8/12/459 Open letter to the Linux World]
 
* [http://www.gabordemooij.com/index.php?p=/escape_from_systemd an experience shared by software engineer on systemd]
 
* [http://fromthecodefront.blogspot.in/2017/07/systemd-pitfalls.html systemd pitfalls] (July 2017)
 
* [http://mrpogson.com/2015/02/09/systemd-or-poettering-name-your-poison/ systemd Or Poettering, Name Your Poison]
 
 
* [http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=120652&p=570371 Combatting revisionist history]
 
* [http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=120652&p=570371 Combatting revisionist history]
 
* [http://www.webcitation.org/query?id=1399384468768939&date=%400&fromform=1 another list of technical points explaining why systemd is bad (by boycottsystemd.org)]
 
* [http://www.webcitation.org/query?id=1399384468768939&date=%400&fromform=1 another list of technical points explaining why systemd is bad (by boycottsystemd.org)]
 
* [[Local copy of boycottsystemd.org archive]]
 
* [[Local copy of boycottsystemd.org archive]]
 
* [https://sysdfree.wordpress.com/ blogsite: systemd-free linux community]
 
* [https://sysdfree.wordpress.com/ blogsite: systemd-free linux community]
* [https://igurublog.wordpress.com/2014/04/03/tso-and-linus-and-the-impotent-rage-against-systemd/ Ts’o and Linus And The Impotent Rage Against systemd]
 
* [https://plus.google.com/+TheodoreTso/posts/4W6rrMMvhWU A realization that I recently came to while discussing the whole systemd controversy (by Theodore Ts'o)]
 
* [http://louwrentius.com/systemd-forward-secure-sealing-of-system-logs-makes-little-sense.html systemd Forward Secure Sealing of System Logs Makes Little Sense]
 
* [http://blog.gerhards.net/2011/11/journald-and-rsyslog.html journald and rsyslog]
 
* [http://blog.gerhards.net/2011/11/what-i-dont-like-about-journald.html What I don't like about journald / Linux Journal]
 
* [http://www.steven-mcdonald.id.au/articles/systemd.shtml Why I dislike systemd]
 
* [http://draketo.de/light/english/top-5-systemd-troubles Top 5 systemd troubles - a strategic view for distros]
 
* [http://www.galexander.org/systemd_sucks.html systemd sucks (experience of galexander)]
 
 
* [https://pwnies.com/winners/#lamestvendor Lamest Vendor Response 2017 #PwnieAwards goes to Lennart Poettering for systems f*ckups] [https://twitter.com/dalmoz_/status/890397041674911745/photo/1 photo]
 
* [https://pwnies.com/winners/#lamestvendor Lamest Vendor Response 2017 #PwnieAwards goes to Lennart Poettering for systems f*ckups] [https://twitter.com/dalmoz_/status/890397041674911745/photo/1 photo]
* [http://blog.darknedgy.net/technology/2015/10/11/0/ Structural and semantic deficiencies in the systemd architecture for real-world service management, a technical treatise]
 
 
* [http://pappp.net/?p=969 PAPPP's ramblings - Linux Future (how systemd is not like Unix)]
 
* [http://pappp.net/?p=969 PAPPP's ramblings - Linux Future (how systemd is not like Unix)]
 
* [https://github.com/coreos/rkt/issues/576 systemd requiring CAP_SYS_ADMIN weakening container safety in coreOS/rkt]
 
* [https://github.com/coreos/rkt/issues/576 systemd requiring CAP_SYS_ADMIN weakening container safety in coreOS/rkt]
* [https://bsdmag.org/randy_w_3/ Problems with systemd and Why I like BSD Init (by Randy Westlund)]
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* [https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=668001#20 Debian Bug #668001 "debootstrap: cant install systemd instead of sysvinit"] (2014 mailing list thread, 100+ msgs)
* [https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=668001#20 Debian Bug #668001 "debootstrap: cant install systemd instead of sysvinit"] (2014 mailing list thread, 100+ msgs)<br>
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* [[Non-English and multimedia presentations (external links)]]
* [[non-English and multimedia presentations (external links)]]
 

Revision as of 16:58, 16 April 2018

Contents

Please objectively explain issues and link a reliable source (commit, bug report or documentation).

Issues

  • fsck cannot be cancelled (used to be possible via C-c or c on the console). 7f110ff9b8, Fedora#719952
  • systemd defaults to Google's DNS nameservers. e16cb2e4ef, Debian#761658
  • systemd defaults to Google's NTP servers, which serve leap-smeared time. GitHub#437
  • systemd by default uses Predictable Network Interface Names, which are actually less predictable when you only have one interface per type.
  • systemd by default kills background processes after the user logs out. 97e5530cf2, Debian#825394
    "In my view it was actually quite strange of UNIX that it by default let arbitrary user code stay around unrestricted after logout." -Poettering[1]
  • As systemd depends on many files on a rootfs, in case of any problems with rootfs, it is not able to control processes and (cleanly) shutdown/reboot when Crtl-Alt-Del is pressed.[2]
  • systemd-resolved breaks the traditional glibc behavior and skips a DNS server in all following queries, if it does not respond once. GitHub#5755, [3]

Conceptional problems

Debunking the myth of unit files being significantly shorter than scripts used by all other init systems: A side-by-side look at run scripts and service units

Poor design

Scope creep

Systemd anigif.gif

  • init system
  • login manager - systemd-logind
  • PAM - pam_systemd
  • getty
  • syslog
  • udev
  • mount - systemd.mount
  • cryptsetup
  • cron
  • at
  • dbus
  • acpi
  • cgroups
  • gnome-session
  • autofs - automount.automount
  • tcpwrapper
  • audit

See Wikipedia:File:Systemd components.svg.

Scope creep leads to vulnerabilities

Absurd bugs and responses

Breaking promises and immaturity

"After udev is merged into the systemd tree you can still build it for usage outside of systemd systems, and we will support these builds officially. In fact, we will be supporting this for a long time"

"...this will effectively also mean that we will not support non-systemd systems with udev anymore starting at that point. Gentoo folks, this is your wakeup call."

Linux (kernel) coup attempt: "kdbus support is no longer compile-time optional ... We encourage all downstream distributions to begin testing kdbus by adding it to the kernel images in the development distributions, and leaving kdbus support in systemd enabled." comment on this on LKML

"The kdbuswreck"

"kdbus now out-of-tree"

"kdbus dropped in favor of BUS1"

unmet stability promises:

To quote from the systemd stability promise:

"Starting with version 26 (the first version released with Fedora 15) we promise to keep a number of them stable and compatible for the future."

One of their promises is for the export format:

"Entry metadata that is not actually a field is serialized like it was a field, but beginning with two underscores. "

This is not true for version 44 of systemd for example.

Ignorance of fundamental operating system concepts


Blog posts

See also

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